Echo of Moscow Radio: Moldovan president comments on 2009 election, Transnistrian settlement
Moldovan President Vladimir Voronin has said that he will not quit politics after the 2009 parliamentary election. In an interview with the Ekho Moskvy radio station, Voronin criticized the rebel Dniester region leader Igor Smirnov for avoiding meetings with him. He reiterated that Moldova is ready to give the Dniester region the status of broad autonomy but will not agree to federalization. Voronin also said that Moldova's unification is the top guarantee of the country's neutrality since the Dniester residents will most certainly vote against accession to NATO. The following is the text of Voronin's interview with Ekho Moskvy on 1 October:
[Correspondent] We are in Chisinau, in the residence of Moldovan President Vladimir Voronin, in a comfortable library where the equipment of Ekho Moskvy and of TV channel RTVi is placed. And in front of me there is the guest of our today's programme, Mr President. Good afternoon, Mr Voronin.
[Voronin] Good afternoon.
Dniester leader deliberately hampers talks
[Correspondent] So, we shall start our discussion. Let's start from the hottest issue, the Dniester settlement. Before coming to Chisinau, I studied relevant material. A few days ago one could still have the impression that everything was about to be OK. I purposefully took out a quote by the head of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Sergey Lavrov, I quote: No conflict has ever been so close to a settlement as the Dniester conflict is now. But late last week, you, in very harsh words, sent Mr Smirnov's regime to a waste dump and described it as stinking. What happened? Were you at the time a politician or an individual?
[Voronin] Firstly, the fact that we held consultations with the Russian president on the basis of which Minister Lavrov made his statement, all these remain in force, I mean all these agreements and principles of settling the Dniester issue. All that I said, I said it for Smirnov personally, because I am sick and tired of his permanent tricks; now he wants to meet, then he doesn't want to meet, now he is busy, then he is free, now he wants to meet in Bender [Dniester-run city situated on Moldova's territory], then he doesn't want to come on this bank, now he has no security guarantees then he invents something else.
This policy of cunning has been continuing for 17 years already. Believe me that this is very serious now. And it is unclear what he wants and whether he wants it at all. I understand that he wants to keep everything the way he has built it, I mean his regime. Its place is at a waste dump, at a political waste dump. It is clear, only some physiologist may understand it otherwise.
[Correspondent] But you will have to hold talks with him.
[Voronin] His place and the place of all the other separatist regimes, existing somewhere on the planet, is at the same waste dump. It was related namely to this state of affairs, to this personality.
[Correspondent] I see. But still, is their any hope t hat the settlement process will continue, although the word "continue" is inappropriate here because this process has not really started. But nonetheless. You say all sorts of harsh words against this regime. But you will have to sit at the negotiating table with them if this process ultimately kicks off.
[Voronin] Do I have another choice? I hold an office in this country and the issue of the country's unification is a priority issue. It's mine [priority] in my tenure of president, and in general this is our state policy. I said when I was going to Bender, almost three months ago, that I am ready to sit at the negotiating table even with the evil spirit, with the devil, and I meant Smirnov. But I must follow the line of the country's unification. I have to pass this way, regardless of whether I like it or not. I simply must do it.
Dniester region's autonomy as solution to conflict
[Correspondent] By the way, these days your foreign minister spoke at the UN General Assembly about the existence of a kind of strategy of settlement of the Dniester conflict. As far as I know, also these days you had a meeting with the EU special representative, who also talked about settlement prospects. Is there any plan? Everyone remembers, everyone recalls the 2003 Kozak Plan [Russia-proposed document providing for Moldova's federalization to solve the conflict]. By the way, the same Lavrov, in one of his statements or interview, talked about the possibility of returning to this plan. But you see, I am not sure, the Kozak Plan, [Ukrainian President] Yushchenko, by the way, had some more or less compact and elaborated project.
[Voronin] All these years, there were lots of plans, ideas, proposals, consultations, meetings. Now we have the law of the Moldovan parliament passed in July 2005, which is called On the main principles of the Dniester autonomy. On the basis of this basic law [changes track], by the way, this was the first law to be passed by 100 per cent of members of the Moldovan parliament. It was for the first time ever, which is very important. The Moldovan political class expressed unanimous recognition and unanimous support for the draft on the Dniester region's status.
Nothing like this has ever happened during all these years. Here, we have different interests, but many have united around the Dniester issue. It would take too long to speak about this. But having this very law, we worked out a draft of the basic law on the status of the Dniester autonomy. In addition to this draft, we elaborated a plan, or as Europeans call it, a road map, of gradual settlement of the problem, and a mechanism of guarantees. We suggest that these three documents should serve as a basis for the opening of negotiations in the five-plus-two format. Our draft documents were handed to all the five main participants in the negotiating process. It was no t handed to the Dniester region only.
[Correspondent] Because you did not hand it or because they did not take it?
[Voronin] Because they had it a long time ago, right after we sent it to the others, they received it. But we should confirm it in a protocol. And we will do it. We have the opinions on this draft law on the status of the Dniester region of all these five countries, except for the Russian Federation. And the Moldovan side will push for the examination of our law on the status of the Dniester autonomy as the main document of negotiations.
Trilateral format convenient for consultations only
[Correspondent] As for the five-plus-two format, we should explain to our listeners that those five are Russia, Ukraine, the USA, the OSCE and the European Union and the two are Tiraspol and Chisinau. You said that of all these five only the Russian Federation has not expressed its opinion yet. Could it be somehow related to the fact that somewhere, unofficially, there is a second one-plus-two format. Russia, as single mediator in the negotiations between Chisinau and Tiraspol?
[Voronin] Yes, but this format can only conduct consultations preparing for the wide format of the negotiating process. Of course, it could be. Because we hold consultations with all the participants in the five-plus-two format. I tried to meet and have consultations with Smirnov. But he has been obstructing all these, all these meetings, all these consultations for all these years.
[Correspondent] You met him in April?
[Voronin] Yes. And we agreed to meet frequently, whenever necessary, but so far we have failed to. You see, he is always avoiding meetings. But we meet with all the others, with representatives of the USA, the EU. Two days ago, on Monday, I met EU representatives. I will meet the OSCE permanent representative in Chisinau tomorrow. We hold permanent consultations with Ukraine. Not so long ago, I was in Sochi and met Russian President Medvedev.
Rebel leader avoids settlement meetings
[Correspondent] Well, President Medvedev met Smirnov too.
[Voronin] This is how it was agreed. It was agreed that afterwards [after the Voronin-Medvedev meeting] he meets Smirnov, after which I meet Smirnov too. And I can see now what metamorphosis happened to Smirnov. Since then, I have tried. If we have agreed we should be consistent. But we have failed. That is why I am indignant at such a hare-like behaviour.
[Correspondent] What is the failure about? Did they produce any arguments?
[Voronin] No arguments. Either they don't like the venue, or there are no guarantees, or he is busy.
[Correspondent] Let's return to this five-sided format once again. You say that four of them expressed their opinions. Except for the Russian Federation. How do you think what is impeding Moscow's reaction?
[Voronin] I think that nothing is impeding its reaction. The delay is probably related to the fact that all these situations have to be clarified with the Dniester leadership, with Smirnov. Probably Moscow wants either that somebody persuades Smirnov or that another form of working with Smirnov, or with anybody else in the Dniester region, to be found. Because this is how it is. The same about me, I heard it from Mr Lavrov, not directly, I had no meeting with him, I heard it from the press that Chisinau and Tiraspol should agree among themselves. We have been agreeing for 18 years. This is the style of behaviour of Smirnov and his team for all these 18 years. It is impossible to reach any agreement.
They are satisfied with the status quo and with the current situation in the Dniester region. They need no changes, no recognition, nothing. They like the separatist region, where everything is possible; one can do what he wants there.
[Correspondent] In addition it is not officially recognized.
[Voronin] This is what they say in order to calm down somebody somewhere. In fact they need nothin g.
[Passage omitted: Voronin reiterates that the events in the Caucasus will not lead to the recognition of Moldova's rebel Dniester region. Voronin also says that the church is the only institution that did not split up because of the Dniester conflict.]
President confirms commitment to Moldova's neutrality
[Correspondent] Well, let's return to politics. In one of the interviews you gave in the spring this year, you said that Moscow wants to exchange the Dniester region for Moldova's commitment not to join NATO.
[Voronin] No, I couldn't have said like this, directly... to exchange... We are not ...
[Correspondent] Well, then let's replace the word.
[Voronin] No.
[Correspondent] All right. Then I would like to ask you something and replace this word with another one.
[Voronin] About guarantees.
[Correspondent] And the second question regarding these guarantees and these commitments. Are you indeed ready to undertake such commitments?
[Voronin] There is nothing new I can say about this. In my tenure of president I must honour the constitution on which I was sworn in while taking the office. And the constitution, by the way we have a single constitution since the proclamation of independence, we did not change it, it's the constitution of 1994, and this constitution clearly says that the Republic of Moldova has the status of permanent neutrality. I honour the constitution. And today the amendment of the neutrality status is out of question both in Moldova and in Moldova's relations with the European agencies and NATO. It is out of question.
The NATO deputy secretary general has officially said that Moldova's lack of NATO membership and Moldova's reluctance to join NATO is not an impediment to Moldova's European integration.
[Correspondent] You have talked about neutrality which is stipulated in Moldova's constitution. What do you understand by this? What is the difference between neutrality as you see it, and the multi-vector foreign policy, different-vector foreign policy, which was proclaimed by many countries in the post-Soviet area?
[Voronin] The difference is very big. To us, neutrality is not about non-accession to any foreign military organization, it is about preventing the presence of foreign military bases and servicemen in the country. These are the main principles of the permanent neutrality of our Moldova. As concerns the multi-vector policy, well, geographically, we border on Romania in the west, it is an EU member state, Moldova itself is a member of the CIS [Commonwealth of Independent States], and Moldova has set the European integration as a strategic task.
I am always asked by journalists and other people how these two are combined: on the one hand you have to work there and on the other hand, you talk of European integration. By the way we have pretty good results in this direction. Everything combines rather well. From all these we take the advantage of good preferences for the benefit of our economy, our people.
[Passage omitted: Voronin speaks about the economic situation and about the possibility of being a member of the EU and the CIS.]
[Correspondent] Mr Voronin, Iwould like to return to your words, when you were talking about neutrality. You said that neutrality implies the lack of foreign troops on the state's territory.
[Voronin] Yes.
[Correspondent] I understand that the Dniester settlement is largely dependent on this too; I mean the presence of peacekeeping forces. Is this one of the points, let's say, of disagreement with the members of the five-sided format or with certain members only? Or they understand that you do not want .... Well, it is no secret that currently there are peacekeeping forces, they are considered to be Russian, although, I believe that many of them...
[Voronin] No, they [the peacekeepers] are [from] all the parties.
[Correspondent] In addition, there are remainders of the 14 Army, am I right?
[Voronin] No.
[Correspondent] Well, some depots?
[Voronin] There is "the operative group" of the Defence Ministry of the Russian Federation.
[Correspondent] Well, I mean those who guard the depots.
[Voronin] It is at the base of the former 14 [Army]. Well, there is a limited, an absolutely small contingent.
[Correspondent] So what is your position on the peacekeeping forces?
[Voronin] First of all, I want again to clarify a little bit the neutrality status.
[Correspondent] OK.
[Voronin] You see, there are statements coming even from the Dniester region that nowadays, Moldova has the status of neutrality, [but] after unification [with the rebel Dniester region] it may change this status. But you know, sometimes in order to solve something you need to put as many questions as possible.
So here you have the question. And I want to answer that changing this constitutional norms is a very intricate process. It's very difficult. It can be done only through a constitutional referendum.
And at this point a very interesting situation emerges to make sure that no such questions will appear any more. The problem is that 60 per cent of the country's population has to participate in a constitutional referendum and the outstanding majority has to say "Yes" or "No" to the amend the constitution - we are talking about the neutrality status.
If we unite with the Dniester region, the number of the Dniester population will represent that mass that will never allow getting 60 per cent in order to change the neutrality status of our country. So, here you have all the guarantees that they want to receive from us. These are guarantees for all, because I am not sure that all Dniester residents will cast their ballots for Moldova's NATO membership.
[Correspondent] And North-Atlantic integration.
[Voronin] Yes, those who would like Moldova to join NATO sometimes in the future. At this point, everything will end, with the unification of the country we will strengthen this constitutional position. And no kind of regime change and so on, can ever change this.
Moldova denied access to Dniester-based arm s depots
Now about peacekeepers. The Russian Federation has peacekeepers, Ukraine has, the Dniester region has and we [Moldova] have. It's clear that in the security zone (there is such a zone and so many other things), they are in charge of controlling the observation of norms, all requirements to make sure that there are no weapons, no armed people, no infringements, and so on and so forth.
In case something happens, there is the Joint Control Commission [JCC, a peacekeeping body based in the security zone between Moldova and its breakaway Dniester region], which holds meetings once a week, [and] solves all issues, the claims of the sides.
I have to say - let's put it this way - let's consider it as a merit of peacekeepers - thanks God that nothing happened during all these years.
[Correspondent] Nothing.
[Voronin] There were no casualties, no losses, and I want very much that there won't ever be any, that this zone be peaceful like all these years. And that limited number of the troops of the Russian Federation who are based in the Dniester region, they range from 1,200 to 1,800, depending on the season. They are more numerous in winter and less numerous in summer - they are on leave.
They are guarding those several depots where the armament that was withdrawn in a hurry from Germany and other countries of the Warsaw Pact when the Soviet Union collapsed; it was kept there, according to statements by those people who guard these depots.
We don't really know what they keep in those depots and this is very bad. We don't know for eight years now. None of us has access to those depots. But these - to return to the subject - people, representatives of the Russian Defence Ministry, they guard these depots. They [do not have] any other assignments in the Dniester region or in Moldova in general, because if somebody comes to the Dniester region, it means that he came to Moldova, because de facto and de jure, the entire Dniester region is a part of the Republic of Moldova in all the international organizations starting from the UN.
[Passage omitted: Voronin speaks about exports of Moldovan wine to Russia]
President upbeat on Communists' election victory in 2009
[Correspondent] Mr Voronin, Moldova will hold a parliamentary election in the spring of 2009. I shall recall for those who do not know that Moldova is a parliamentary republic and the president is elected by the members of parliament.
[Voronin] Starting from 2000. It was decided that Moldova is a parliamentary republic.
[Correspondent] Mr Voronin, according to the constitution you will have to quit. You have served two tenures. Aren't [you] tempted to get the third?
[Voronin] I am going to leave in line with the constitutional norms and with my desire.
[Correspondent] Well, your party, the Communist Party, holds the majority in the opinion polls. It means, obviously, that if the party wins the forthcoming election, it will determine your successor. Do you have any ideas about your successor?
[Voronin] So, you say we hold the majority in the opinion polls. Do you mind me correcting you a little bit? We hold the overwhelming majority in opinion polls. Yes, overwhelming majority. This is very hard to get, by the way. This is our second tenure. And requirements for the ruling party are always higher.
[Correspondent] The ruling parties normally lose.
[Voronin] Of course, because of what they did or did not, because of promises made during the electoral campaign. But we are in strict control to ensure that our words meet our deeds. Well, there are, you know, possibilities, and so on - although people understand us and support us. But we are going to work in such a way as to continue the modernization path, the construction line of modern democratic Moldova.
For us, it is a matter of principle.
You know, initially, I mean in 2001 [when the Communists first came to power in independent Moldova], our name Communist scared a lot of people, both in Europe and inside the country. But nobody, no Liberals have ever carried out such liberal reforms and the reconstruction of all sectors, as we did in Moldova during all these years.
[Passage omitted: Voronin speaks about the Communists' economic achievements. He also says that Romania's accession to the EU makes Moldova's unification with it impossible.]
[Correspondent] Mr Voronin, the last question. You, know usually artists and painters are asked what their plans are? Well, it seems that this is not appropriate for politicians, and still, what are your plans? Will Vladimir Voronin remain in politics after the spring of 2009?
[Voronin] It is clear for everybody in Moldova. Certainly.
[Correspondent] Well, it is not clear for us yet.
[Voronin] Well, in March, our party held a congress, at which, in addition to other issues that exist in any other party, we set the party's line for the forthcoming election. And at this congress, I was again elected to lead the party. And even if I wanted it so much - maybe personally to have some rest - it will not be possible unfortunately. I will be involved in the election campaign and in the political life of our country.
Taking into account the goals and tasks that we set for these eight years, I cannot stand aside. They have to be fulfilled, they have to be solved. It is a matter of principle. This is a matter of my honour and dignity. I must do it. That is why I will not disappear.
On the other hand, of course, my personal ambitions have been fully satisfied due to the two presidential tenures and due to my previous activities, both in the Soviet times and now. And I have no particular claims, but I will stay in active politics, I will help young politicians, I will help those statesmen, who want to create, who want to do great deeds for Moldova.
I will participate in all this work.
[Correspondent] Good luck to you!
[Voronin] Thank you very much!
Ekho Moskvy radio
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